I'm sort of lost here, any help welcome.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I'm sort of lost here, any help welcome.Have a look at USB adapters. SD video is not that high bit rate,
especially if the adapter is compressing. No idea of the marketplace, although I have a $7 composite video USB capture that's probably
awful. BNC is just composite video I think - do they power from there
or external power?
If you have a lot of USB devices consider extra USB PCIe cards, but 4
behind a USB 3 hub is probably ok.
Theo
On 13 Sep 2024 20:19:28 +0100 (BST)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I'm sort of lost here, any help welcome.Have a look at USB adapters. SD video is not that high bit rate,
especially if the adapter is compressing. No idea of the
marketplace, although I have a $7 composite video USB capture
that's probably awful. BNC is just composite video I think - do
they power from there or external power?
If you have a lot of USB devices consider extra USB PCIe cards, but
4 behind a USB 3 hub is probably ok.
Theo
Hmm. Since this will be a new installation, there will be little other
demand on any resources.
I am looking for something that will accept the BNC plugs coming from
the cameras.
I have not heard of USB devices that can do this, I will look.
And the cameras are all powered from a separate 12v PSU, which splits
to feed all the cameras. The standard camera cable has: Power, Video
signal, Audio signal (if available).
Thanks for the thoughts, I will report progress, if any.
I cannot find any suitable BNC-input USB video cards. Plenty of HDMI
and others, such as network, but not BNC. If you know of any, please
send me a link.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:0CMGZTZH1/
=20=20
I cannot find any suitable BNC-input USB video cards. Plenty of HDMI
and others, such as network, but not BNC. If you know of any, please
send me a link. =20
If it's composite video, you just need a BNC to phono (RCA) adapter: https://www.amazon.co.uk/10-BNC-Female-RCA-Adapter/dp/B013GKEYCU/
=20
Then plug into a 'USB video capture' box with 'RCA' inputs.
Definitely not a recommendation, but this kind of thing: https://www.amazon.co.uk/HENGBIRD-Grabber-Capture-Converter-Digitize/dp/B=
=20
Software wise it would pay to search for one with Linux support - the
one I have (branded 'EasyCAP') works with Linux but it's old and I'm
not clear on the current market. Linux TV has info, under analog
devices:
https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardware_device_information
=20
It often pays to look for reviews or text which says what chip is
inside, as the cheap brand names change like the wind. Be prepared to
return if you can't make it work under Linux.
=20
Theo
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:0CMGZTZH1/
=20=20
I cannot find any suitable BNC-input USB video cards. Plenty of HDMI
and others, such as network, but not BNC. If you know of any, please
send me a link. =20
If it's composite video, you just need a BNC to phono (RCA) adapter: https://www.amazon.co.uk/10-BNC-Female-RCA-Adapter/dp/B013GKEYCU/
=20
Then plug into a 'USB video capture' box with 'RCA' inputs.
Definitely not a recommendation, but this kind of thing: https://www.amazon.co.uk/HENGBIRD-Grabber-Capture-Converter-Digitize/dp/B=
=20
Software wise it would pay to search for one with Linux support - the
one I have (branded 'EasyCAP') works with Linux but it's old and I'm
not clear on the current market. Linux TV has info, under analog
devices:
https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardware_device_information
=20
It often pays to look for reviews or text which says what chip is
inside, as the cheap brand names change like the wind. Be prepared to
return if you can't make it work under Linux.
=20
Theo
On 14 Sep 2024 09:28:30 +0100 (BST)/B0CMGZTZH1/
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
=20
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote: =20
=20=20
I cannot find any suitable BNC-input USB video cards. Plenty of
HDMI and others, such as network, but not BNC. If you know of
any, please send me a link. =20
If it's composite video, you just need a BNC to phono (RCA) adapter: https://www.amazon.co.uk/10-BNC-Female-RCA-Adapter/dp/B013GKEYCU/
=20
Then plug into a 'USB video capture' box with 'RCA' inputs.
Definitely not a recommendation, but this kind of thing: https://www.amazon.co.uk/HENGBIRD-Grabber-Capture-Converter-Digitize/dp=
=20=20
Software wise it would pay to search for one with Linux support -
the one I have (branded 'EasyCAP') works with Linux but it's old
and I'm not clear on the current market. Linux TV has info, under
analog devices: https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardware_device_information
=20
It often pays to look for reviews or text which says what chip is
inside, as the cheap brand names change like the wind. Be prepared
to return if you can't make it work under Linux.
=20
Theo =20
Another thought:
Since the current PCI card works fine, I am going to see if I can find
a refurbished PC, which I would not normally look at, to see if I can
find a refurbished PCI slot-equipped machine.
No cost of a =C2=A3200-plus PCIe card, a cheaper PC than a new one.=20 Thoughts?
=20
I am going to see if I can find a refurbished PC, which I would not
normally look at, to see if I can find a refurbished PCI slot-
equipped machine.
Davey wrote:
I am going to see if I can find a refurbished PC, which I would not normally look at, to see if I can find a refurbished PCI slot-
equipped machine.
Or a PCIe to PCI riser?
Called a " a PCI to PCIe adaptor card" by me at 10:25? The same thing,
just different names. Although I agree that putting 'PCIe" before
"PCI" is a more logical construction. Whatever we call it, it looks like
the way to go, in my situation.
I don't like refurbished PCs, anyway.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
Called a " a PCI to PCIe adaptor card" by me at 10:25? The same
thing, just different names. Although I agree that putting 'PCIe"
before "PCI" is a more logical construction. Whatever we call it,
it looks like the way to go, in my situation.
I don't like refurbished PCs, anyway.
You may have a problem with mounting - the adapter card adds maybe
1-1.5" to the height of your card. Depends on how tall your PCI card
is. You'll probably need to take the backplate off, but it may be
short enough to fit in a full height PCIe slot.
If this is problematic you can get PCIe 'riser' cables. Random
example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/GLOTRENDS-Riser-Function-Features-Degree-Black/dp/B0CHRZQNRK/
(various lengths and x1 / x4 / x8 / x16 available, many different
designs)
and then mount the card elsewhere in the case.
If you're buying a new PC anyway there are a few mobos with native
PCI slots: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#d=1,6&sort=price&page=1
Most of them are for old CPUs, but those with AM4, AM5, LGA1200 or
LGA1700 CPU sockets are fairly modern: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#d=1,6&sort=price&s=33,41,39,40
Theo
On 15 Sep 2024 14:47:18 +0100 (BST)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
Called a " a PCI to PCIe adaptor card" by me at 10:25? The same
thing, just different names. Although I agree that putting 'PCIe"
before "PCI" is a more logical construction. Whatever we call it,
it looks like the way to go, in my situation.
I don't like refurbished PCs, anyway.
You may have a problem with mounting - the adapter card adds maybe
1-1.5" to the height of your card. Depends on how tall your PCI
card is. You'll probably need to take the backplate off, but it
may be short enough to fit in a full height PCIe slot.
If this is problematic you can get PCIe 'riser' cables. Random
example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/GLOTRENDS-Riser-Function-Features-Degree-Black/dp/B0CHRZQNRK/
(various lengths and x1 / x4 / x8 / x16 available, many different
designs)
and then mount the card elsewhere in the case.
If you're buying a new PC anyway there are a few mobos with native
PCI slots: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#d=1,6&sort=price&page=1
Most of them are for old CPUs, but those with AM4, AM5, LGA1200 or
LGA1700 CPU sockets are fairly modern: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#d=1,6&sort=price&s=33,41,39,40
Theo
Thanks. I will probably get the PC first, and then I can look inside
and see what space there is, and therefore what I need to get to a
PCI slot. Luckily, my existing system is still working, so it is not
urgent. I will continue to report progress.
You may have a problem with mounting - the adapter card adds maybe 1-1.5" to the height of your card. Depends on how tall your PCI card is.
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 15:00:18 +0100ck/dp/B0CHRZQNRK/
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
=20
On 15 Sep 2024 14:47:18 +0100 (BST)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
=20
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote: =20
Called a " a PCI to PCIe adaptor card" by me at 10:25? The same=20
thing, just different names. Although I agree that putting
'PCIe" before "PCI" is a more logical construction. Whatever we
call it, it looks like the way to go, in my situation.
I don't like refurbished PCs, anyway. =20
You may have a problem with mounting - the adapter card adds maybe
1-1.5" to the height of your card. Depends on how tall your PCI
card is. You'll probably need to take the backplate off, but it
may be short enough to fit in a full height PCIe slot.
=20
If this is problematic you can get PCIe 'riser' cables. Random
example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/GLOTRENDS-Riser-Function-Features-Degree-Bla=
e&page=3D1(various lengths and x1 / x4 / x8 / x16 available, many different designs)
=20
and then mount the card elsewhere in the case.
=20
If you're buying a new PC anyway there are a few mobos with native
PCI slots: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#d=3D1,6&sort=3Dpric=
e&s=3D33,41,39,40=20
Most of them are for old CPUs, but those with AM4, AM5, LGA1200 or LGA1700 CPU sockets are fairly modern: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#d=3D1,6&sort=3Dpric=
=20=20=20
Theo =20
Thanks. I will probably get the PC first, and then I can look inside
and see what space there is, and therefore what I need to get to a
PCI slot. Luckily, my existing system is still working, so it is not urgent. I will continue to report progress.
=20
The new PC is ordered, from PC Specialists, who provided my laptop. A
shame they don't do Linux, but nobody is perfect. I will install that
myself.
First, I will get it sorted without any hint of Zoneminder, it's other
job will be to take over as my daily backup device. I will also take
a look inside to see what room there is for PCI adaptors.
=20
When I was setting it up, I noticed that I could not hear any sounds,
even though there was a speaker pair plugged in. Adjustments to the
volume control eventually produced some Test sounds, but only with
both the Volume and even the 'volume amplifier' setting both at
maximum. The sound could just be heard with the speakers held close to
the ear. The manufacturer suggested going back into Windows, and
downloading a Driver Downloader Uninstaller, which would clean out and re-install the Windows sound drivers. But even if this works, it's in Windows, not Linux. Trying to install and run this was a mass exercise
in demonstrating why I hate Windows.
I hate to think about sending it back, with all the hassle involved,
when I don't actually need sound on this particular machine. I have
installed Zoneminder, (quite a long process there), and I have purchased
a PCIe-to-PCI adapter card, but I have not installed it yet, pending
the final decision on what to do, if anything, with the sound problem.
They are sending me a Windows driver of some sort to help, I hope. The non-activated Windows will not let me access the Windows settings to
test the speaker output.
I am going to try playing about with alsa-mixer and pavucontrol to see
if they help at all. After lunch, that is.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
When I was setting it up, I noticed that I could not hear any
sounds, even though there was a speaker pair plugged in.
Adjustments to the volume control eventually produced some Test
sounds, but only with both the Volume and even the 'volume
amplifier' setting both at maximum. The sound could just be heard
with the speakers held close to the ear. The manufacturer suggested
going back into Windows, and downloading a Driver Downloader
Uninstaller, which would clean out and re-install the Windows sound drivers. But even if this works, it's in Windows, not Linux. Trying
to install and run this was a mass exercise in demonstrating why I
hate Windows.
Are you sure you aren't exporting sound via the HDMI (or
Displayport)? It's a common way to use monitor/TV speakers nowadays,
and it's possible the sound is going there - but if your monitor
doesn't have speakers then you wouldn't hear anything.
Although it sounds like the audio output does work, but perhaps the
mixer volume is wrong. That could be influenced by software.
Have you tried headphones, in case it's something related to the
speakers?
Do the speakers need external power? I used to have a set where they
would be passive if the internal amplifier wasn't powered, resulting
in much quieter volume.
I hate to think about sending it back, with all the hassle involved,
when I don't actually need sound on this particular machine. I have installed Zoneminder, (quite a long process there), and I have
purchased a PCIe-to-PCI adapter card, but I have not installed it
yet, pending the final decision on what to do, if anything, with
the sound problem. They are sending me a Windows driver of some
sort to help, I hope. The non-activated Windows will not let me
access the Windows settings to test the speaker output.
I am going to try playing about with alsa-mixer and pavucontrol to
see if they help at all. After lunch, that is.
Worst case, a USB audio output dongle is less than a tenner.
Probably less cost than the postage to send it back.
That is why I am going to play with alsa-mixer. It's a long tie sonce I
last did, but it worked then.
Davey wrote:
=20
That is why I am going to play with alsa-mixer. It's a long tie=20
sonce I last did, but it worked then. =20
pulseaudio and/or pipewire might be sticking their oar in ...
=20
I was recommended to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MIoC-CdEQw
which explains, sort of, how to install one of these cards. But I
am confused about at least one thing. I am sure there will be more as
(if) this progresses.
In that video, he uses Windows. After installation, he then* calls up a screen (BIOS?) that tells him whether or not the PC, a UEFI one like
mine, sees the new card that he then installs. Will this be the same on
my machine, and if so, how do I configure the BIOS to allow the legacy
BIOS to be seen and used?
I am clearly well out of my comfort zone here!
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I was recommended to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MIoC-CdEQw
which explains, sort of, how to install one of these cards. But I
am confused about at least one thing. I am sure there will be more
as (if) this progresses.
In that video, he uses Windows. After installation, he then* calls
up a screen (BIOS?) that tells him whether or not the PC, a UEFI
one like mine, sees the new card that he then installs. Will this
be the same on my machine, and if so, how do I configure the BIOS
to allow the legacy BIOS to be seen and used?
I am clearly well out of my comfort zone here!
I think you're using it just for the video capture card here?
In which case it doesn't matter if the BIOS doesn't see it, because
you're not booting from it. It's fine if the card is ignored until
in your OS, since your OS will boot from some SSD/HDD that's not
connected via the PCI slot. The BIOS doesn't know or care about the
video capture card, it's only bothered by discs and displays (both of
which Adrian was trying to get to work), and the capture card doesn't
have any firmware on it that's run at boot.
Once the OS is booted, I think Linux will likely support such a
PCIe-PCI bridge out of the box - there are no drivers you can
install. So either it'll work or it won't, but probably you can just
plug in the video capture card into the PCI slot and it'll be
detected in Linux (check 'lspci').
As the video suggests, things can be variable though. I tried one in
the reverse direction - PCIe card in PCI slot, in a RISC OS machine
not a PC - and just its presence stopped the machine from booting.
But new into old is probably harder than old into new.
Theo
On 02 Oct 2024 10:18:24 +0100 (BST)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I was recommended to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MIoC-CdEQw
which explains, sort of, how to install one of these cards. But I
am confused about at least one thing. I am sure there will be more
as (if) this progresses.
In that video, he uses Windows. After installation, he then* calls
up a screen (BIOS?) that tells him whether or not the PC, a UEFI
one like mine, sees the new card that he then installs. Will this
be the same on my machine, and if so, how do I configure the BIOS
to allow the legacy BIOS to be seen and used?
I am clearly well out of my comfort zone here!
I think you're using it just for the video capture card here?
In which case it doesn't matter if the BIOS doesn't see it, because
you're not booting from it. It's fine if the card is ignored until
in your OS, since your OS will boot from some SSD/HDD that's not
connected via the PCI slot. The BIOS doesn't know or care about the
video capture card, it's only bothered by discs and displays (both
of which Adrian was trying to get to work), and the capture card
doesn't have any firmware on it that's run at boot.
Once the OS is booted, I think Linux will likely support such a
PCIe-PCI bridge out of the box - there are no drivers you can
install. So either it'll work or it won't, but probably you can
just plug in the video capture card into the PCI slot and it'll be
detected in Linux (check 'lspci').
As the video suggests, things can be variable though. I tried one
in the reverse direction - PCIe card in PCI slot, in a RISC OS
machine not a PC - and just its presence stopped the machine from
booting. But new into old is probably harder than old into new.
Theo
Thanks for the encouragement! Yes, it is for the video capture card,
but to leave that in operation in the old PC until I am ready for it,
I have an old but unused Wifi PCI card available, which I hope will do
the job of test mule.
More when there is more.
I installed the first card that plugs into the motherboard, and ran the
USB cable out through the next backplate slot, as that is where the
video card will sit. For now, the PCI board sits on top of the PC, the
bottom of it is well protected from touching anything. Later, it will
hang off the rear of the video card, assuming I get that far!
Due to operator error, I didn't see what happened, if anything, on the
screen after powering up the PC, but the new PCI slot board has the
little blue light glowing, which implies that it is happy.
But the SATA cable supplied as a spare part with the PC has a different connector for the PCI board end, it needs a 15-pin connector instead of
a 7-pin. The supplied cable has a 7-pin plug at each end.
I am confused about the gender of the socket on the PCI board, is it
male or a female, the difference seems to be very small to the untrained
eye?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CXSYTRH3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title
shows the board. I will assume that the SATA connector is female,
needing a male plug, but another opinion would be welcomed. I am in an unknown world here.
But looking at SATA cables, maybe the PC motherboard, which is described
as having 6Gb/s SATA sockets, may not be capable of supplying actual
power? I am confused. Again.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I installed the first card that plugs into the motherboard, and ran
the USB cable out through the next backplate slot, as that is where
the video card will sit. For now, the PCI board sits on top of the
PC, the bottom of it is well protected from touching anything.
Later, it will hang off the rear of the video card, assuming I get
that far! Due to operator error, I didn't see what happened, if
anything, on the screen after powering up the PC, but the new PCI
slot board has the little blue light glowing, which implies that it
is happy. But the SATA cable supplied as a spare part with the PC
has a different connector for the PCI board end, it needs a 15-pin connector instead of a 7-pin. The supplied cable has a 7-pin plug
at each end. I am confused about the gender of the socket on the
PCI board, is it male or a female, the difference seems to be very
small to the untrained eye?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CXSYTRH3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title
shows the board. I will assume that the SATA connector is female,
needing a male plug, but another opinion would be welcomed. I am in
an unknown world here.
But looking at SATA cables, maybe the PC motherboard, which is
described as having 6Gb/s SATA sockets, may not be capable of
supplying actual power? I am confused. Again.
The SATA connector is for power, because the USB 3 cable can only
carry a small amount of current from the motherboard. Plug in a SATA
power connector from your PSU and you can power a beefy PCI card like
a GPU from the PSU directly.
It doesn't want anything to do with SATA data from the mobo.
It may or may not work without the SATA power cable being connected,
but better to supply power via the SATA connector and avoid brownouts.
Theo
the new PCI slot board has the
little blue light glowing, which implies that it is happy.
But the SATA cable supplied as a spare part with the PC has a different connector for the PCI board end, it needs a 15-pin connector instead of
a 7-pin. The supplied cable has a 7-pin plug at each end.
I am confused about the gender of the socket on the PCI board, is it
male or a female, the difference seems to be very small to the untrained
eye?
Davey wrote:
the new PCI slot board has the
little blue light glowing, which implies that it is happy.
But the SATA cable supplied as a spare part with the PC has a
different connector for the PCI board end, it needs a 15-pin
connector instead of a 7-pin. The supplied cable has a 7-pin plug
at each end. I am confused about the gender of the socket on the
PCI board, is it male or a female, the difference seems to be very
small to the untrained eye?
The SATA 15pin connector is to supply power to the PCI slots, if your
PSU doesn't have a spare sata power plug on one of the drive cables,
you could get a molex->sata cable e.g.
<https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B00009YFTI>
that one just has red 5V and yellow 12V, I highly doubt yu need the
version with salmon 3.3V as well.
If you have no spare molex plug, you can get a splitter.
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 12:59:00 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
the new PCI slot board has the
little blue light glowing, which implies that it is happy.
But the SATA cable supplied as a spare part with the PC has a
different connector for the PCI board end, it needs a 15-pin
connector instead of a 7-pin. The supplied cable has a 7-pin plug
at each end. I am confused about the gender of the socket on the
PCI board, is it male or a female, the difference seems to be very
small to the untrained eye?
The SATA 15pin connector is to supply power to the PCI slots, if your
PSU doesn't have a spare sata power plug on one of the drive cables,
you could get a molex->sata cable e.g.
<https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B00009YFTI>
that one just has red 5V and yellow 12V, I highly doubt yu need the version with salmon 3.3V as well.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 12:59:00 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
the new PCI slot board has the
little blue light glowing, which implies that it is happy.
But the SATA cable supplied as a spare part with the PC has a
different connector for the PCI board end, it needs a 15-pin
connector instead of a 7-pin. The supplied cable has a 7-pin
plug at each end. I am confused about the gender of the socket
on the PCI board, is it male or a female, the difference seems
to be very small to the untrained eye?
The SATA 15pin connector is to supply power to the PCI slots, if
your PSU doesn't have a spare sata power plug on one of the drive
cables, you could get a molex->sata cable e.g.
<https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B00009YFTI>
that one just has red 5V and yellow 12V, I highly doubt yu need
the version with salmon 3.3V as well.
PCI is +/-12V, +5V and +3.3V. Some cards are 5V and some are 3.3V. Depending on how lazy the adapter manufacturer has been, I wouldn't be surprised if the card needs all these rails to come from the PSU,
rather than taking 5V and regulating it down.
There's no voltage conversion circuit on the front of the board - no
pics of the back, but I suspect they cheapskate out of it. So I
wouldn't assume a Molex adapter will work.
Theo
When I powered it up for the
first time with the video card installed and powered, there was a
warning about Fan speed. I looked inside, and the fan was not
running, but a quick tap made it start. From then on, it ran at varying speeds, so something is affected. Maybe the PSU is a: Underpowered
Davey wrote:
When I powered it up for the
first time with the video card installed and powered, there was a
warning about Fan speed. I looked inside, and the fan was not
running, but a quick tap made it start. From then on, it ran at
varying speeds, so something is affected. Maybe the PSU is a:
Underpowered
I suspect the fan's bearing has dried up and powering it off/on, or
moving the case about has given it a chance to start acting up, dab a
drop of light oil on the bearing, perhaps?
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:48:06 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
When I powered it up for the
first time with the video card installed and powered, there was a
warning about Fan speed. I looked inside, and the fan was not
running, but a quick tap made it start. From then on, it ran at
varying speeds, so something is affected. Maybe the PSU is a: Underpowered
I suspect the fan's bearing has dried up and powering it off/on, or
moving the case about has given it a chance to start acting up, dab a
drop of light oil on the bearing, perhaps?
Possibly. But it is a brand new PC, so it shouldn't have dried out yet.
I'll keep an eye on it, oil ready if needed.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:48:06 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
When I powered it up for the
first time with the video card installed and powered, there was
a warning about Fan speed. I looked inside, and the fan was not running, but a quick tap made it start. From then on, it ran at
varying speeds, so something is affected. Maybe the PSU is a: Underpowered
I suspect the fan's bearing has dried up and powering it off/on,
or moving the case about has given it a chance to start acting
up, dab a drop of light oil on the bearing, perhaps?
Possibly. But it is a brand new PC, so it shouldn't have dried out
yet. I'll keep an eye on it, oil ready if needed.
I'm confused - I thought you were talking about the fan on the video
capture card that you transferred from the old PC? Or do you mean a
fan on the CPU / GPU / motherboard / in the case?
Modern PCs have variable speed fans - like laptops, they only spin
the fans as fast as they need, based on temperature sensors. So
changing speed is a feature not a bug. Although I wouldn't have
expected speed to change based on a tap, perhaps it was coincidence
that it happened to decide to spin up the fan at that time?
Theo
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:48:06 +0100=20
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
=20
Davey wrote:=20
=20
When I powered it up for the=20
first time with the video card installed and powered, there was
a warning about Fan speed. I looked inside, and the fan was not running, but a quick tap made it start. From then on, it ran at
varying speeds, so something is affected. Maybe the PSU is a: Underpowered =20
I suspect the fan's bearing has dried up and powering it off/on,
or moving the case about has given it a chance to start acting
up, dab a drop of light oil on the bearing, perhaps? =20
Possibly. But it is a brand new PC, so it shouldn't have dried out
yet. I'll keep an eye on it, oil ready if needed. =20
I'm confused - I thought you were talking about the fan on the video
capture card that you transferred from the old PC? Or do you mean a
fan on the CPU / GPU / motherboard / in the case?
=20
Modern PCs have variable speed fans - like laptops, they only spin
the fans as fast as they need, based on temperature sensors. So
changing speed is a feature not a bug. Although I wouldn't have
expected speed to change based on a tap, perhaps it was coincidence
that it happened to decide to spin up the fan at that time?
=20
Theo
On 03 Oct 2024 10:22:23 +0100 (BST)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:48:06 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
When I powered it up for the
first time with the video card installed and powered, there
was a warning about Fan speed. I looked inside, and the fan
was not running, but a quick tap made it start. From then on,
it ran at varying speeds, so something is affected. Maybe the
PSU is a: Underpowered
I suspect the fan's bearing has dried up and powering it off/on,
or moving the case about has given it a chance to start acting
up, dab a drop of light oil on the bearing, perhaps?
Possibly. But it is a brand new PC, so it shouldn't have dried out
yet. I'll keep an eye on it, oil ready if needed.
I'm confused - I thought you were talking about the fan on the video capture card that you transferred from the old PC? Or do you mean a
fan on the CPU / GPU / motherboard / in the case?
Modern PCs have variable speed fans - like laptops, they only spin
the fans as fast as they need, based on temperature sensors. So
changing speed is a feature not a bug. Although I wouldn't have
expected speed to change based on a tap, perhaps it was coincidence
that it happened to decide to spin up the fan at that time?
Theo
Yes, it was the fan on the motherboard. When I powered it up, I was
given a warning that there was a problem, and told to open the BIOS,
which displays fan speed. Once I had tapped the fan and started it
spinning, the speed display matched the sound of the fan, as it went
into speed ranges that I had never heard before. Maybe it was just
getting the temperature sorted out.
The next time I boot up, without the video card installed, I will go
into the BIOS and watch what happens.
https://tinyurl.com/26k8uy3bThe capture chip looks to be supported by LinuxTV
It is just about mentioned on the company website, buried
deep in the Unsupported file. There is no mention of available
documentation. The vendor says it was used in a Windows system, so has
no idea about Linux use. My question is, is it
possible/probable/certain that my Ubuntu would pick it up and go with
it without any any further configuration?
Ok. I did some testing yesterday, trying to pin down what is happening.
When I boot up the PC with only the adapter card connected, without the
SATA cable, it always works with no problem.
But once I start to add more, such as the SATA cable, the fan control
has difficulties. Often, if the message comes up that there is a
problem, and to go into the BIOS, just doing that and waiting for a few minutes will let it sort itself out. Nothing needs to actually be done.
I tried it with the video card installed, and it really did not like it.
It still sorted itself out, ...
My first thought here is that the card may draw more power than the PSU
can comfortably deliver, at least at start-up.
Davey wrote:
https://tinyurl.com/26k8uy3bThe capture chip looks to be supported by LinuxTV
It is just about mentioned on the company website, buried deep in the
Unsupported file. There is no mention of available documentation. The
vendor says it was used in a Windows system, so has no idea about Linux
use. My question is, is it possible/probable/certain that my Ubuntu
would pick it up and go with it without any any further configuration?
<https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Conexant_Fusion_878A>
the other major chip on the card is a PCI/PCIe bridge
The card I looked at is:
https://tinyurl.com/26k8uy3b
It is just about mentioned on the company website, buried
deep in the Unsupported file. There is no mention of available
documentation. The vendor says it was used in a Windows system, so has
no idea about Linux use. My question is, is it
possible/probable/certain that my Ubuntu would pick it up and go with
it without any any further configuration?
Daniel James wrote:
My first thought here is that the card may draw more power than the PSU can comfortably deliver, at least at start-up.
I think a PCIe card can draw max 75W from a dlot (presumably the second
slot is unoccupied?)
Not sure how much power a SATA cable can supply?
It seems like something is wrong, but unclear what. Fans are usually
powered from 12V, so perhaps the adapter did something bad with the 12V
rail?
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
The card I looked at is:
https://tinyurl.com/26k8uy3b
That's ebay item 185944607636, ie:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185944607636
instead of your giant tracking link :)
It is just about mentioned on the company website, buried
deep in the Unsupported file. There is no mention of available documentation. The vendor says it was used in a Windows system, so
has no idea about Linux use. My question is, is it possible/probable/certain that my Ubuntu would pick it up and go
with it without any any further configuration?
According to the writing on the chips, it has: https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Conexant_Fusion_878A
behind a PCIe to PCI bridge:
https://www.ti.com/product/XIO2001
The above page says it's supported by the Linux bttv driver: https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Bttv
So looks promising.
Theo
On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 14:19:29 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
Davey wrote:
https://tinyurl.com/26k8uy3bThe capture chip looks to be supported by LinuxTV
It is just about mentioned on the company website, buried deep in
the Unsupported file. There is no mention of available
documentation. The vendor says it was used in a Windows system, so
has no idea about Linux use. My question is, is it
possible/probable/certain that my Ubuntu would pick it up and go
with it without any any further configuration?
<https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Conexant_Fusion_878A>
the other major chip on the card is a PCI/PCIe bridge
Indeed I ran a couple for ages (PCI not PCIe) work well
Or <https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364218770565>
HTH
Avpx
On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 14:19:29 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
Davey wrote:
https://tinyurl.com/26k8uy3bThe capture chip looks to be supported by LinuxTV
It is just about mentioned on the company website, buried deep in
the Unsupported file. There is no mention of available
documentation. The vendor says it was used in a Windows system, so
has no idea about Linux use. My question is, is it
possible/probable/certain that my Ubuntu would pick it up and go
with it without any any further configuration?
<https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Conexant_Fusion_878A>
the other major chip on the card is a PCI/PCIe bridge
Indeed I ran a couple for ages (PCI not PCIe) work well
Or <https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364218770565>
HTH
Avpx
when unpowered, it will not rotate, being presumably under the
total control of some stepper-type operator.
Davey wrote:
when unpowered, it will not rotate, being presumably under the
total control of some stepper-type operator.
I've never encountered computer fans with stepper motors.
On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 11:46:02 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
when unpowered, it will not rotate, being presumably under the
total control of some stepper-type operator.
I've never encountered computer fans with stepper motors.
Hmmm. Puzzled, then. It makes a very slight chugging sound, similar to,
but not exactly like*, a bad bearing. It is almost inaudible with the
side installed on the PC, though.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 11:46:02 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
when unpowered, it will not rotate, being presumably under the
total control of some stepper-type operator.
I've never encountered computer fans with stepper motors.
Hmmm. Puzzled, then. It makes a very slight chugging sound, similar
to, but not exactly like*, a bad bearing. It is almost inaudible
with the side installed on the PC, though.
I've never come across a PC fan that won't spin by hand when powered
off. It sounds like it's either powered but not enough to overcome
friction to start (eg low voltage or speed control set too low), or
bearings badly binding.
As you say it's not spinning when unpowered (ie PC turned off), that
rules out the first one. I'm thinking it would be worth changing the
fan.
It sounds like this is probably a red herring in relation to your
capture card issues.
Theo
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 11:46:02 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
when unpowered, it will not rotate, being presumably under the
total control of some stepper-type operator.
I've never encountered computer fans with stepper motors.
Hmmm. Puzzled, then. It makes a very slight chugging sound, similar
to, but not exactly like*, a bad bearing. It is almost inaudible
with the side installed on the PC, though.
I've never come across a PC fan that won't spin by hand when powered
off. It sounds like it's either powered but not enough to overcome
friction to start (eg low voltage or speed control set too low), or
bearings badly binding.
As you say it's not spinning when unpowered (ie PC turned off), that
rules out the first one. I'm thinking it would be worth changing the
fan.
It sounds like this is probably a red herring in relation to your
capture card issues.
Theo
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 11:46:02 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
when unpowered, it will not rotate, being presumably under the
total control of some stepper-type operator.
I've never encountered computer fans with stepper motors.
Hmmm. Puzzled, then. It makes a very slight chugging sound, similar
to, but not exactly like*, a bad bearing. It is almost inaudible
with the side installed on the PC, though.
I've never come across a PC fan that won't spin by hand when powered
off. It sounds like it's either powered but not enough to overcome
friction to start (eg low voltage or speed control set too low), or
bearings badly binding.
As you say it's not spinning when unpowered (ie PC turned off), that
rules out the first one. I'm thinking it would be worth changing the
fan.
It sounds like this is probably a red herring in relation to your
capture card issues.
Theo
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I'm sort of lost here, any help welcome.Have a look at USB adapters. SD video is not that high bit rate,
especially if the adapter is compressing. No idea of the marketplace, although I have a $7 composite video USB capture that's probably
awful. BNC is just composite video I think - do they power from there
or external power?
If you have a lot of USB devices consider extra USB PCIe cards, but 4
behind a USB 3 hub is probably ok.
Theo
Ok, let's try the Euresys drivers. The one for the card is Multicam,
which I downloaded, followed the instructions for installation, and it
kept on failing for lack of something or other. Every attempt prompted
an Uninstall to clean the system. It wanted Memento, and it actually
said 'install Memento', but with no clue as to where to find it. I
eventually did, buried deep in the website, and downloaded the
documentation and installer for that. I tried to install it,
but it fails:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
Ok, let's try the Euresys drivers. The one for the card is Multicam,
which I downloaded, followed the instructions for installation, and
it kept on failing for lack of something or other. Every attempt
prompted an Uninstall to clean the system. It wanted Memento, and
it actually said 'install Memento', but with no clue as to where to
find it. I eventually did, buried deep in the website, and
downloaded the documentation and installer for that. I tried to
install it, but it fails:
The first rule is never ever use vendor drivers, they are the route
to much pain and suffering.
Supposedly the chip supports the 'bttv' driver: https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Bttv
which in theory should work out of the box.
See:
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/media/v4l-drivers/index.html specifically the bttv section.
You might need to install a package containing the 'bttv.ko' kernel
module - you may need a linux-modules-extra-... package. eg to
install for your current kernel version:
$ sudo apt install linux-modules-extra-$(uname -r)
(you may need to repeat the command when your kernel version gets
updated, not sure if there's a way to keep them in sync)
Theo
Many thanks. I tried the instructions that came with the original bttv
driver card, but got nowhere. But that was for an early version of
Ubuntu, so I was not surprised.
I will try your suggestions, thanks.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:Messages =E2=80=93
Many thanks. I tried the instructions that came with the original=20
bttv driver card, but got nowhere. But that was for an early
version of Ubuntu, so I was not surprised.
I will try your suggestions, thanks. =20
Anyway, it appears Memento is completely the wrong thing for your application:
=20
"Memento is an advanced event message logging system that greatly
facilitates the debugging of machine vision applications using
Euresys frame grabbers.
=20
Memento is a set of software tools allowing:
* Kernel drivers and user space applications =E2=80=93
Memento Contributors =E2=80=93 to inject trace messages =E2=80=93 Memento=
into a common memory area =E2=80=93 the Memento Ring Buffer.%20Getting%20Started/Abstract.htm
* Memento Contributors to time-stamp Memento messages
using a common time scale =E2=80=93 Memento Time Scale.
* To view selected sets of recent- or past- Memento
Messages using the Memento Viewer function
* To dump Memento data from the Memento Ring Buffer
to disk using the Memento Dump function
=20
The Memento software package has two main components:
* A kernel-mode driver: Memento Driver.
* A user-mode application: Memento Application." https://documentation.euresys.com/Products/Memento/Memento_9_4/Content/01=
=20
=20
I don't think you're debugging a machine vision application, so what
you were trying to install seems like a complete red herring.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
Ok, let's try the Euresys drivers. The one for the card is Multicam,
which I downloaded, followed the instructions for installation, and
it kept on failing for lack of something or other. Every attempt
prompted an Uninstall to clean the system. It wanted Memento, and
it actually said 'install Memento', but with no clue as to where to
find it. I eventually did, buried deep in the website, and
downloaded the documentation and installer for that. I tried to
install it, but it fails:
The first rule is never ever use vendor drivers, they are the route
to much pain and suffering.
Supposedly the chip supports the 'bttv' driver: https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Bttv
which in theory should work out of the box.
See:
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/media/v4l-drivers/index.html specifically the bttv section.
You might need to install a package containing the 'bttv.ko' kernel
module - you may need a linux-modules-extra-... package. eg to
install for your current kernel version:
$ sudo apt install linux-modules-extra-$(uname -r)
(you may need to repeat the command when your kernel version gets
updated, not sure if there's a way to keep them in sync)
Theo
On 10 Oct 2024 10:41:13 +0100 (BST)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
Ok, let's try the Euresys drivers. The one for the card is
Multicam, which I downloaded, followed the instructions for
installation, and it kept on failing for lack of something or
other. Every attempt prompted an Uninstall to clean the system.
It wanted Memento, and it actually said 'install Memento', but
with no clue as to where to find it. I eventually did, buried
deep in the website, and downloaded the documentation and
installer for that. I tried to install it, but it fails:
The first rule is never ever use vendor drivers, they are the route
to much pain and suffering.
Supposedly the chip supports the 'bttv' driver: https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Bttv
which in theory should work out of the box.
See:
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/media/v4l-drivers/index.html specifically the bttv section.
You might need to install a package containing the 'bttv.ko' kernel
module - you may need a linux-modules-extra-... package. eg to
install for your current kernel version:
$ sudo apt install linux-modules-extra-$(uname -r)
(you may need to repeat the command when your kernel version gets
updated, not sure if there's a way to keep them in sync)
Theo
Ok. I sent some time on this today. As far as I can see, all the
required modules etc are loaded. I can find nothing to be missing,
but I am not familiar with this.
It looks as though all the components are there, the PC recognises the
card, but I can't get Zoneminder to open a channel. I'm leaving it
alone overnight.
In order to test the card, I have dug out an unused camera, by
Defender Security. It worked when I bought it and tested it, but I
can't now get it to function correctly when attached to the empty
input on the old PC. It may be that I tested it on the independent
Swann CCTV system. It has a resolution of 976 x 496, but if I set it
to that, I get a sliced and angled image. If I try some other setups,
all the other inputs go crazy, so my attempt to use a known good
camera on the new PC fails. I will have to temporarily remove one of
the working cameras from its place, use it for testing, and then
replace it. If I can get the PC and the card to talk turkey, that is.
And just to confuse me, Euresys replied to my earlier message about
Memento and Multicam, saying that Memento is not needed, and is old,
and suggesting I try Multicam alone. In direct contravention of their
own instruction manual!
it looks like a busy weekend at the workbench.
Any suggestions welcome.
Davey wrote:
Any suggestions welcome.
Does "lspci" show the brooktree card(s)?
does "ls /dev/video*" show the devices?
ls: cannot access '/dev/video*': No such file or directory
Now, I know I saw video0 somewhere before, I specically looked for it. I can't remember if it was in /dev. Then, I followed the instructions in HOW-TO-etc, and it was there before I rebooted. Now it's not. I need to
do some more route retracing.
Davey wrote:
ls: cannot access '/dev/video*': No such file or directory
Now, I know I saw video0 somewhere before, I specically looked for
it. I can't remember if it was in /dev. Then, I followed the
instructions in HOW-TO-etc, and it was there before I rebooted. Now
it's not. I need to do some more route retracing.
The entries under /dev would only appear if a driver had loaded,
normally PnP would handle it, but maybe some furtling with modprobe
or insmod required?
Probably look first for clues with "dmesg | grep -i -e bt878 -e brook"
Davey wrote:
ls: cannot access '/dev/video*': No such file or directory
Now, I know I saw video0 somewhere before, I specically looked for
it. I can't remember if it was in /dev. Then, I followed the
instructions in HOW-TO-etc, and it was there before I rebooted. Now
it's not. I need to do some more route retracing.
The entries under /dev would only appear if a driver had loaded,
normally PnP would handle it, but maybe some furtling with modprobe
or insmod required?
Probably look first for clues with "dmesg | grep -i -e bt878 -e brook"
On Sun, 13 Oct 2024 11:18:48 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
ls: cannot access '/dev/video*': No such file or directory
Now, I know I saw video0 somewhere before, I specically looked for
it. I can't remember if it was in /dev. Then, I followed the
instructions in HOW-TO-etc, and it was there before I rebooted.
Now it's not. I need to do some more route retracing.
The entries under /dev would only appear if a driver had loaded,
normally PnP would handle it, but maybe some furtling with modprobe
or insmod required?
Probably look first for clues with "dmesg | grep -i -e bt878 -e
brook"
"dmesg | grep -i -e bt878 -e brook"
produced no results. Hmm.
I ran "$ sudo dmesg | less" again, it had previously produced lines
showing that bttv was loaded. This time it did not.
I then ran "$ sudo modprobe -v bttv", and then the dmesg showed the
bttv entries again. So modprobe is needed, at least at the moment.
Then, again, the dmesg | grep instruction shows:
~$ sudo dmesg | grep -i -e bt878 -e brook
[16854.002864] bttv: 0: Bt878 (rev 17) at 0000:04:00.0, irq: 19,
latency: 32, mmio: 0x83401000
So things are heading in the right direction, even if for now manual configuration is needed.
Then $lsmod
"Module Size Used by
bttv 176128 0
tveeprom 24576 1 bttv
tea575x 20480 1 bttv
videobuf2_dma_sg 20480 1 bttv
videobuf2_memops 16384 1 videobuf2_dma_sg
videobuf2_v4l2 36864 1 bttv
videobuf2_common 81920 4 bttv,videobuf2_v4l2,videobuf2_dma_sg,videobuf2_memops rc_core
73728 1 bttv i2c_algo_bit 16384 1 bttv
videodev 356352 3 tea575x,bttv,videobuf2_v4l2
mc 81920 3
videodev,videobuf2_v4l2,videobuf2_common"
which shows an entry for v4l2.
Then:
$ ls /dev/video*
/dev/video0
So far, so good, it looks. But Zoneminder still does not see anything.
Still puzzled, with at least a list of what to do on boot to load
things.
it is only as
part of 'videobuf2'
Another thing that puzzles me:
I can locate bttv.ko, the module to load the driver, but I can't read
it, I get some strange script as though I need a different language.
Davey wrote:
Another thing that puzzles me:
I can locate bttv.ko, the module to load the driver, but I can't
read it, I get some strange script as though I need a different
language.
Curious why you think it ought to be readable? It's compiled code.
It's ages since I dabbled with ZM, so nothing I can say about
persuading it to use cameras.
can you get ffmpeg, gstreamer or vlc to capture from the camera?
I can try. Not my normal area of expertise, but anything is worth
trying.
More later, thanks for thoughts.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I can try. Not my normal area of expertise, but anything is worth
trying.
More later, thanks for thoughts.
It's worth looking at logs from Zoneminder, vlc or anywhere else
that's relevant. It's possible they're complaining about something
that is stopping the card from being accepted.
In the olden days the logfiles lived in /var/log (some still do), but nowadays you need to interact with 'journalctl', eg 'journalctl -x -e'
If you find a log line that's relevant, google the message and see
what comes up.
Theo
I must automate the required actions that I
know about to make bootup easier.
Davey wrote:
I must automate the required actions that I
know about to make bootup easier.
You ought to be able to force the equivalent of the insmod/modprobe
you're doing, by putting entries into /etc/modprobe.conf
Or at worst, adding the module name to the kernel command line in
your grub.cfg
Davey wrote:
I must automate the required actions that I
know about to make bootup easier.
You ought to be able to force the equivalent of the insmod/modprobe
you're doing, by putting entries into /etc/modprobe.conf
Or at worst, adding the module name to the kernel command line in
your grub.cfg
On Mon, 14 Oct 2024 16:59:45 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
I must automate the required actions that I
know about to make bootup easier.
You ought to be able to force the equivalent of the insmod/modprobe
you're doing, by putting entries into /etc/modprobe.conf
Or at worst, adding the module name to the kernel command line in
your grub.cfg
As an aside, I was wondering whether to load Ubuntu 24.04 onto the new
PC, alongside the 22.04 that I am currently using, and see if
installing that, with the videocard already in place, might be worth a
try.
I installed 22.04 because 24.04 seemed to be lacking some programmes
that I use, whereas 22.04 is familiar with them. If 22.04 works, then
that would be fine, as the PC's main purpose is to run Zoneminder.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I can try. Not my normal area of expertise, but anything is worth
trying.
More later, thanks for thoughts.
It's worth looking at logs from Zoneminder, vlc or anywhere else
that's relevant. It's possible they're complaining about something
that is stopping the card from being accepted.
In the olden days the logfiles lived in /var/log (some still do), but nowadays you need to interact with 'journalctl', eg 'journalctl -x -e'
If you find a log line that's relevant, google the message and see
what comes up.
Theo
I just tried again, and then looked for the log. And the first thing
that comes up is:
"FAT [zmc_dvideo0] [Failed to open video device /dev/video0: Permission denied]"
I just tried again, and then looked for the log. And the first thing
that comes up is:
"FAT [zmc_dvideo0] [Failed to open video device /dev/video0: Permission denied]"
which gives a reason for failure.
Maybe it might be worth removing and reinstalling Zoneminder after
getting the ./MAKEDEV and modprobe -v bttv processes completed. I seem
to be just spinning my wheels here.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I just tried again, and then looked for the log. And the first thing
that comes up is:
"FAT [zmc_dvideo0] [Failed to open video device /dev/video0:
Permission denied]"
which gives a reason for failure.
On Ubuntu 24.04 I get:
$ ls -l /dev
...
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 0 Oct 9 09:13 video0
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 1 Oct 9 09:13 video1
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 2 Oct 9 09:13 video2
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 3 Oct 9 09:13 video3
so only those in the 'video' group get access to the video device.
Have you checked that your user is in the 'video' group?
Maybe it might be worth removing and reinstalling Zoneminder after
getting the ./MAKEDEV and modprobe -v bttv processes completed. I
seem to be just spinning my wheels here.
./MAKEDEV is a very old way of doing things. These days the tool is
'udev' and you have udev rules which say how the devices are made as
things are hotplugged. I have pre-existing rules in various files:
$ grep -r video /lib/udev/rules.d/
/lib/udev/rules.d/95-cd-devices.rules:# video cameras /lib/udev/rules.d/95-cd-devices.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", ENV{ID_V4L_PRODUCT}!="", ENV{COLORD_DEVICE}="1",
ENV{COLORD_KIND}="camera" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:SUBSYSTEM!="video4linux",
GOTO="persistent_v4l_end" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:KERNEL=="video*",
ENV{ID_SERIAL}=="?*", SYMLINK+="v4l/by-id/$env{ID_BUS}-$env{ID_SERIAL}-video-index$attr{index}" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:KERNEL=="video*|vbi*",
ENV{ID_PATH}=="?*", SYMLINK+="v4l/by-path/$env{ID_PATH}-video-index$attr{index}" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:KERNEL=="video*|vbi*",
ENV{ID_PATH_WITH_USB_REVISION}=="?*", SYMLINK+="v4l/by-path/$env{ID_PATH_WITH_USB_REVISION}-video-index$attr{index}" /lib/udev/rules.d/70-uaccess.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux",
TAG+="uaccess" /lib/udev/rules.d/70-uaccess.rules:# DRI video
devices /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", GROUP="video" /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="graphics", GROUP="video" /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="drm", KERNEL!="renderD*",
GROUP="video" /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="dvb", GROUP="video" /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="media", GROUP="video" /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="cec", GROUP="video" /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="firewire", TEST=="units", ENV{IEEE1394_UNIT_FUNCTION_VIDEO}=="1",
GROUP="video" /lib/udev/rules.d/70-camera.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", ENV{ID_BUS}="usb",
\ /lib/udev/rules.d/80-debian-compat.rules:KERNEL=="lirc[0-9]*", GROUP="video"
You shouldn't edit those rules, but put new rules in /etc/udev/rules.d
However I don't think you need new rules, just putting your user in
the 'video' group and then logging out and back in again should fix
it.
Theo
Davey wrote:
I just tried again, and then looked for the log. And the first thing
that comes up is:
"FAT [zmc_dvideo0] [Failed to open video device /dev/video0:
Permission denied]"
Can you use sudo or su to run whatever you're running?
Maybe chmod/chown the /dev/video0 device
run vlc, with su or sudo
from within the gui choose Media / Open Capture Device
and for video device use /dev/video0
leave audio device as 'none'
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I just tried again, and then looked for the log. And the first thing
that comes up is:
"FAT [zmc_dvideo0] [Failed to open video device /dev/video0:
Permission denied]"
which gives a reason for failure.
On Ubuntu 24.04 I get:
$ ls -l /dev
...
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 0 Oct 9 09:13 video0
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 1 Oct 9 09:13 video1
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 2 Oct 9 09:13 video2
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 3 Oct 9 09:13 video3
so only those in the 'video' group get access to the video device.
Have you checked that your user is in the 'video' group?
Maybe it might be worth removing and reinstalling Zoneminder after
getting the ./MAKEDEV and modprobe -v bttv processes completed. I
seem to be just spinning my wheels here.
./MAKEDEV is a very old way of doing things. These days the tool is
'udev' and you have udev rules which say how the devices are made as
things are hotplugged. I have pre-existing rules in various files:
$ grep -r video /lib/udev/rules.d/
/lib/udev/rules.d/95-cd-devices.rules:# video cameras /lib/udev/rules.d/95-cd-devices.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", ENV{ID_V4L_PRODUCT}!="", ENV{COLORD_DEVICE}="1",
ENV{COLORD_KIND}="camera" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:SUBSYSTEM!="video4linux", GOTO="persistent_v4l_end" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:KERNEL=="video*", ENV{ID_SERIAL}=="?*", SYMLINK+="v4l/by-id/$env{ID_BUS}-$env{ID_SERIAL}-video-index$attr{index}" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:KERNEL=="video*|vbi*", ENV{ID_PATH}=="?*", SYMLINK+="v4l/by-path/$env{ID_PATH}-video-index$attr{index}" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:KERNEL=="video*|vbi*", ENV{ID_PATH_WITH_USB_REVISION}=="?*", SYMLINK+="v4l/by-path/$env{ID_PATH_WITH_USB_REVISION}-video-index$attr{index}"
/lib/udev/rules.d/70-uaccess.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux",
TAG+="uaccess" /lib/udev/rules.d/70-uaccess.rules:# DRI video devices /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", GROUP="video"
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="graphics",
GROUP="video"
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="drm",
KERNEL!="renderD*", GROUP="video" /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="dvb",
GROUP="video"
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="media",
GROUP="video"
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="cec",
GROUP="video"
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="firewire",
TEST=="units", ENV{IEEE1394_UNIT_FUNCTION_VIDEO}=="1", GROUP="video" /lib/udev/rules.d/70-camera.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", ENV{ID_BUS}="usb", \ /lib/udev/rules.d/80-debian-compat.rules:KERNEL=="lirc[0-9]*",
GROUP="video"
You shouldn't edit those rules, but put new rules in /etc/udev/rules.d
However I don't think you need new rules, just putting your user in
the 'video' group and then logging out and back in again should fix
it.
Theo
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I just tried again, and then looked for the log. And the first thing
that comes up is:
"FAT [zmc_dvideo0] [Failed to open video device /dev/video0:
Permission denied]"
which gives a reason for failure.
On Ubuntu 24.04 I get:
$ ls -l /dev
...
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 0 Oct 9 09:13 video0
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 1 Oct 9 09:13 video1
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 2 Oct 9 09:13 video2
crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 3 Oct 9 09:13 video3
so only those in the 'video' group get access to the video device.
Have you checked that your user is in the 'video' group?
Maybe it might be worth removing and reinstalling Zoneminder after
getting the ./MAKEDEV and modprobe -v bttv processes completed. I
seem to be just spinning my wheels here.
./MAKEDEV is a very old way of doing things. These days the tool is
'udev' and you have udev rules which say how the devices are made as
things are hotplugged. I have pre-existing rules in various files:
$ grep -r video /lib/udev/rules.d/
/lib/udev/rules.d/95-cd-devices.rules:# video cameras /lib/udev/rules.d/95-cd-devices.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", ENV{ID_V4L_PRODUCT}!="", ENV{COLORD_DEVICE}="1",
ENV{COLORD_KIND}="camera" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:SUBSYSTEM!="video4linux", GOTO="persistent_v4l_end" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:KERNEL=="video*", ENV{ID_SERIAL}=="?*", SYMLINK+="v4l/by-id/$env{ID_BUS}-$env{ID_SERIAL}-video-index$attr{index}" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:KERNEL=="video*|vbi*", ENV{ID_PATH}=="?*", SYMLINK+="v4l/by-path/$env{ID_PATH}-video-index$attr{index}" /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-v4l.rules:KERNEL=="video*|vbi*", ENV{ID_PATH_WITH_USB_REVISION}=="?*", SYMLINK+="v4l/by-path/$env{ID_PATH_WITH_USB_REVISION}-video-index$attr{index}"
/lib/udev/rules.d/70-uaccess.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux",
TAG+="uaccess" /lib/udev/rules.d/70-uaccess.rules:# DRI video devices /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", GROUP="video"
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="graphics",
GROUP="video"
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="drm",
KERNEL!="renderD*", GROUP="video" /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="dvb",
GROUP="video"
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="media",
GROUP="video"
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="cec",
GROUP="video"
/lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="firewire",
TEST=="units", ENV{IEEE1394_UNIT_FUNCTION_VIDEO}=="1", GROUP="video" /lib/udev/rules.d/70-camera.rules:SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", ENV{ID_BUS}="usb", \ /lib/udev/rules.d/80-debian-compat.rules:KERNEL=="lirc[0-9]*",
GROUP="video"
You shouldn't edit those rules, but put new rules in /etc/udev/rules.d
However I don't think you need new rules, just putting your user in
the 'video' group and then logging out and back in again should fix
it.
Theo
"crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 0 Oct 16 10:09 /dev/video0"
Why is the day's date the 0 of the month?
But vlc still fails on Permission refused! What am I doing wrong?
Davey wrote:
"crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 0 Oct 16 10:09 /dev/video0"
Why is the day's date the 0 of the month?
the 81, 0 are the major and minor device numbers, the date is the 16 following the month name :-)
But vlc still fails on Permission refused! What am I doing wrong?
I know it's not really the done thing, but will Ubuntu actually let
you log on as root to test it does work that way? Not suggesting
it's an actual fix.
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 15:56:30 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
"crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 0 Oct 16 10:09 /dev/video0"
Why is the day's date the 0 of the month?
the 81, 0 are the major and minor device numbers, the date is the
16 following the month name :-)
But vlc still fails on Permission refused! What am I doing
wrong?
I know it's not really the done thing, but will Ubuntu actually let
you log on as root to test it does work that way? Not suggesting
it's an actual fix.
I tried that yesterday, but it replied that vlc would not work with
root.
Good idea, though!
To elaborate on this: I can run vlc without any problem. I can watch a different camera on my Swann system via rtsp. It is this /dev/video(0) permission problem that is stopping it working with the Zoneminder
cameras.
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 17:29:18 +0100
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 15:56:30 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Davey wrote:
"crw-rw----+ 1 root video 81, 0 Oct 16 10:09 /dev/video0"
Why is the day's date the 0 of the month?
the 81, 0 are the major and minor device numbers, the date is the
16 following the month name :-)
But vlc still fails on Permission refused! What am I doing
wrong?
I know it's not really the done thing, but will Ubuntu actually
let you log on as root to test it does work that way? Not
suggesting it's an actual fix.
I tried that yesterday, but it replied that vlc would not work with
root.
Good idea, though!
To elaborate on this: I can run vlc without any problem. I can watch a different camera on my Swann system via rtsp. It is this /dev/video(0) permission problem that is stopping it working with the Zoneminder
cameras.
Davey wrote:
To elaborate on this: I can run vlc without any problem. I can
watch a different camera on my Swann system via rtsp. It is this /dev/video(0) permission problem that is stopping it working with
the Zoneminder cameras.
can you show the output of "id" when logged in as davey
and again after running "su -"
"su -" wants a Password. Where do I find that? It won't accept mine, obviously.it's root's
Davey wrote:
"su -" wants a Password. Where do I find that? It won't accept mine, obviously.it's root's
alternatively you could use "sudo su -" and your own password
Davey wrote:
"su -" wants a Password. Where do I find that? It won't accept mine,it's root's
obviously.
alternatively you could use "sudo su -" and your own password
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
I'm sort of lost here, any help welcome.Have a look at USB adapters. SD video is not that high bit rate,
especially if the adapter is compressing. No idea of the marketplace, although I have a $7 composite video USB capture that's probably
awful. BNC is just composite video I think - do they power from there
or external power?
If you have a lot of USB devices consider extra USB PCIe cards, but 4
behind a USB 3 hub is probably ok.
Theo
After the recent problems with the ancient Ubuntu and Zoneminder installation, I thought about upgrading the PC, the old Dell is now 24AKG67ZUVCCXRK&psc=3D1
years old.
I have a new separate Swann system, but I cannot find how to extract
video from it, it likes Windows, not Linux.
=20
So I am looking at a new (or refurbished) desktop PC, hoping to use my existing CCTV cameras, all with BNC connectors, and to be able to add
one more, making 4 in total. It also monitors one WiFi camera on the
network. Tje PC is also my daily laptop backup device.
My old video card is a PCI, which is now ancient history, so will be
no good for a new PC. Satcure, where I got my first video card from,
went bust some time ago.
=20
Looking around, I see modern versions, but at huge prices, =C2=A3250 up to =C2=A3600!! Yikes. Am I looking for the wrong item here? I don't believe
the old card cost anything like that much.
=20
A sample of what I find: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0D9NQZ2VH/ref=3Dewc_pr_img_1?smid=3D=
But I don't have SDI, and I don't want to replace my cameras or my/B0CCDCLL5G/ref=3Dsr_1_140?crid=3DZQ64KGYGR0UF&dib=3DeyJ2IjoiMSJ9.z-FIUNnsx= AdgHlwX1RlfFRn8U0hm9D5LhTXHaELlQN8lsa7tU6cLwpZo1bjed5npm5LPhrdsoubaowZjmN3h= Phos0n0Ly_t-JN4C1VIND-DuA8BJVTI3nh_AR-vGbt2iOKyERzGmK5VBKquSqV1-N3EZ4nkY8Pz= 5PQtxttI1m2HqOQ-utUt18BBG8ICr_L7dqEBKreLTHnThSCZT0k1l4d8kjknq8IkmCHeS0WjnfS= I.EI8jbBtNOBcmbrhK97vIlojvxMOYz-tXJQWmixSWSrg&dib_tag=3Dse&keywords=3DPCI-E= +video+camera+capture+cards&qid=3D1726225777&sprefix=3Dpci-e+video+camera+c= apture+cards%2Caps%2C104&sr=3D8-140
cabling. I am just looking for a PCI-e, BNC connectors, CCTV video
input card,
=20
There is:
https://tinyurl.com/3smbmmhj
also known as:
=20
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Potadak-Captura-Adapter-Computer-Camera-Black/dp=
=20Well, I have been playing around, and talking to the card manufacturer,
which doesn't say SDI, in fact it doesn't say much of anything, but
therefore MIGHT work with my existing cameras. But there is no
spec.! And I have no idea who Potadek is/are, they seem to sell
everything you could think of. Jack of all trades, and master of none,
comes to mind.
I'm sort of lost here, any help welcome.
=20
Using channel 0 of the new card, with the other channels set to None
for Function, I have the input for the card set as:
Mode: PAL; Capture Palette: RGB32; Target colorspace: 32 bit colour;
Capture Resolution: 768 x 576.
The camera says that its resolution is 976 x 496. Using these figures
in the setup results in nothing.
With the 768 x 576 setup, the Source tag on the Console screen goes
green, and I get an image. But the image is continuously scrolling, and
is fractured. Vague hunts of the real view are tantalisingly hunted at.
Any other Resolution setup I try fails again. I am sure the answer is
out here, but how do I find it?
Again, any help very welcome.
But at least I have made progress!
it sounds like PAL
768x576 is the right thing (the camera is PAL if it's TV standard
Theo wrote:
it sounds like PAL
768x576 is the right thing (the camera is PAL if it's TV standard
Yes, the camera may mention "resolution of 976x496" but that's only
in terms of its ability to resolve that many TVL from a chart like
this, it doesn't mean it spits out 976x496 pixels, or should be
captured at that resolution, 768x576 is correct.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIA_1956_resolution_chart#/media/File:EIA_Resolution_Chart_1956.svg>
On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 12:33:27 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Theo wrote:
it sounds like PAL
768x576 is the right thing (the camera is PAL if it's TV standard
Yes, the camera may mention "resolution of 976x496" but that's only
in terms of its ability to resolve that many TVL from a chart like
this, it doesn't mean it spits out 976x496 pixels, or should be
captured at that resolution, 768x576 is correct.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIA_1956_resolution_chart#/media/File:EIA_Resolution_Chart_1956.svg>
The Deinterlacing box was already set at Linear, by default.
Options offered are: Disabled, Four field motion adaptive-Soft, Four
field motion adaptive-Medium, Four field motion adaptive-Hard,
Discard, Blend, Blend (25%), V4L2: Capture top field only, V4L2: Capture bottom field only, V4L2: Capture Alternate fields (Bob), V4L2 progressive, V4L2 Interlaced.
I had hoped that one of the V4L2 options would be correct, but none of
any of the options offered seem to work. The behaviour of the image
might change slightly, but it still does not work.
Hmm.
Considering where I was at a couple of weeks ago, this is
still progress, but I still can't get over that final hurdle.
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 12:33:27 +0100
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Theo wrote:
it sounds like PAL
768x576 is the right thing (the camera is PAL if it's TV
standard
Yes, the camera may mention "resolution of 976x496" but that's
only in terms of its ability to resolve that many TVL from a
chart like this, it doesn't mean it spits out 976x496 pixels, or
should be captured at that resolution, 768x576 is correct.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIA_1956_resolution_chart#/media/File:EIA_Resolution_Chart_1956.svg>
The Deinterlacing box was already set at Linear, by default.
Options offered are: Disabled, Four field motion adaptive-Soft, Four
field motion adaptive-Medium, Four field motion adaptive-Hard,
Discard, Blend, Blend (25%), V4L2: Capture top field only, V4L2:
Capture bottom field only, V4L2: Capture Alternate fields (Bob),
V4L2 progressive, V4L2 Interlaced.
I had hoped that one of the V4L2 options would be correct, but none
of any of the options offered seem to work. The behaviour of the
image might change slightly, but it still does not work.
Hmm.
Considering where I was at a couple of weeks ago, this is
still progress, but I still can't get over that final hurdle.
It isn't NTSC is it? Probably not if it's a UK setup, but eg I was
looking at reversing cameras for cars and they mostly seem to be NTSC composite video. Suppose it makes sense as they don't need special
versions for Europe and they are never displayed on a TV, only on the dashboard LCD.
If the camera has only ever been used by a capture card and never a TV/monitor, it could be NTSC.
Theo
After the recent problems with the ancient Ubuntu and Zoneminder installation, I thought about upgrading the PC, the old Dell is now 24
years old.
I have a new separate Swann system, but I cannot find how to extract
video from it, it likes Windows, not Linux.
When I initiate the Install procedure, it stops on a compiler
difference condition. I pate the relavant text:
The kernel was built by: x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc-12 (Ubuntu 12.3.0-1ubuntu1~22.04) 12.3.0 You are using:
1: gcc-12: not found make[3]: ***
On 27/11/2024 15:11, Davey wrote:
When I initiate the Install procedure, it stops on a compiler
difference condition. I pate the relavant text:
I haven't built a linux driver for some years, now ... but I recall
the toolchain being quite fussy (with good reason) about the actual
versions of the individual tools. I have on occasion found that
building my own kernel was the easiest way to get everything
consistent (or it may just be that I didn't understand the process
well enough).
The kernel was built by: x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc-12 (Ubuntu 12.3.0-1ubuntu1~22.04) 12.3.0 You are using:
That looks truncated ... it should tell you what version you are
using but that information is missing.
You can find out the actual version of gcc that you have installed by
typing
gcc --version
With a distro as old as Ubuntu 22.04 you may find that successive
updates have landed with a newer kernel (compiled using a newer
compiler than you have) or a newer compiler (than was used to compile
the kernel). Short of switching to a fresh distro with no updates
(which *should* be consistent) or building your own kernel and
drivers with the compiler you have I don't know a way to ensure
consistency.
1: gcc-12: not found make[3]: ***
That seems to be saying that the make tool isn't installed. The
easiest way to get the full toolchain installed is to install the
metapackage called "build-essential".
Thanks for confirming that what I am trying to do is pointless!
| Sysop: | Luis Silva |
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